How a Simple Lip Balm Became a Best-Selling Product on Amazon
- Stanley Igboanugo
- 19 hours ago
- 27 min read
Over the past 20 years, our team at Harvest Growth has helped launch and grow hundreds of consumer products, generating more than $2 billion in revenue. On this podcast, we break down what actually works in product marketing—real stories, real strategies, and lessons you can put to work right away.
In this episode of the Harvest Growth Podcast, Jon LaClare sits down with Dave Maloney, founder of a rapidly growing skincare brand built around simple, effective formulations and a commitment to product quality over hype.
Dave shares how what started as a personal project—creating a product to help his mom—evolved into a thriving business, with his lip balm becoming a standout best-seller on Amazon. Drawing from his background in biotech and chemistry, Dave explains how understanding natural ingredients, testing formulations, and focusing on performance helped him create products that customers truly love.
The conversation dives into why his lip balm outperformed other products, how customer behavior and repeat purchases drive growth, and why many competing products fail to deliver lasting results. Dave also breaks down his lean business model, explaining how he scaled quickly without building a large internal team by leveraging contractors and maintaining flexibility.
You’ll also learn why starting small was one of his biggest advantages—testing products with minimal inventory, refining based on real customer feedback, and avoiding costly mistakes early on. Dave shares his perspective on Amazon as a sales channel, including its advantages, challenges, and why being where customers are ready to buy can make all the difference.
In today’s episode of the Harvest Growth Podcast, we’ll cover:
Why products that truly work drive repeat purchases and organic growth
How Dave formulated a high-performing product using natural ingredients
Why his lip balm became the number 1 seller—and what made it different
The importance of starting small and validating product-market fit early
How to scale a business while keeping your team lean and flexible
Why Amazon can be a powerful channel (if used strategically)
The realities of getting reviews and building trust on Amazon
Why focusing on one “hero product” can accelerate growth
The importance of community and mentorship for entrepreneurs
And so much more!
You can listen to the full interview on your desktop or wherever you listen to your podcasts.
Or, click to watch the full video interview here!
If you’re launching a product, scaling an eCommerce brand, or trying to build something that customers come back to again and again, this episode is packed with practical insights you can apply immediately.
If you enjoyed this episode, be sure to subscribe and leave a review — and we’ll see you next time on the Harvest Growth Podcast.
Prefer reading instead of listening? Read the full transcript here!
[00:00:00]
Jon LaClare
Today's episode is a great one for anyone who wants to build a real product business without a massive team or huge overhead. My guest grew a brand to a multimillion dollar business on Amazon in less than three years. In a category that's crowded, competitive, and not easy to break into. In this conversation, we talk about what it really takes to stand out in a saturated market, how to scale fast without letting expenses get outta control, and how to run a surprisingly large business with a very lean team.
[00:00:31]
Jon LaClare
If you wanna learn more about smart growth, disciplined cash flow management, and building momentum without overbuilding too soon, you're gonna get a lot out of this episode.
[00:00:42]
Announcer
Harvest the growth potential of your product or service as we share stories and strategies that'll make your competitors nervous.
[00:00:50]
Announcer
Now, here's the host of the Harvest Growth Podcast, Jon LaClare.
[00:00:57]
Jon LaClare
Over the past 20 years, our team has helped launch and grow hundreds of consumer products generating more than $2 billion in revenue for our clients. On this show, we break down what actually works in product marketing. These are real stories, real strategies and lessons that you can put put to work right away in your business.
[00:01:18]
Jon LaClare
So whether you are getting ready to launch or you're looking to scale what's already working, you're in the right place. Alright, let's jump into today's interview. I wanna welcome Dave Maloney. He's the founder of Tallowbourn. If you've been on Amazon and looked for Talo related beauty products, you've probably come across his product.
[00:01:36]
Jon LaClare
It's one of the leading Talo products out there. He's done a great job. It's not that old of a company, but he has really taken Amazon and his own website direct to consumer marketing by storm. I'm ex excited to really share the story behind it today and for you guys to get to know Dave as well. First of all though, Dave, welcome to the show.
[00:01:53]
Dave Maloney
Thank you very much, Jon. Pleasure to be here. It's an honor.
[00:01:57]
Jon LaClare
Absolutely. Thank you. So this is, like I said in my quick intro, um, it hasn't been around that long, but before. So we wanna talk about the kind of history and how you got started, but for those who don't know much about it, if you could just do maybe a, a more complete introduction of Ali Born, what types of products you make and, and how to find you.
[00:02:14]
Dave Maloney
Yeah, sure. So we have, uh, so it's Tao based products, hence Tao born. Uh, so we make lip balm. Towel bomb. So like a body and face bomb deodorant, tallow soaps, sun bomb. Um, and so, yeah, so we, you know, I, I think it's, it's, it's based around, tallow is the main ingredient in all my products, but it's not just tallow.
[00:02:40]
Dave Maloney
It's a, it's a. Mix of all the best, best natural ingredients.
[00:02:46]
Jon LaClare
And as I mentioned, it hasn't been around that long, I think 2023, is that right? The year you've officially founded?
[00:02:52]
Dave Maloney
Yeah. So it was the summer of 2023, probably June was just talking to my mom, uh, and she, you know, had problems with skin issues, eczema and whatnot, and she was complaining about going to the dermatologist and getting, you know, uh.
[00:03:11]
Dave Maloney
Steroid creams and whatnot, it just like wasn't working. And so really was, it was just a passion project. It wasn't a business idea. Uh, I just, you know, used my background in chemistry. I was like, you know, I'm gonna go into the, into the, uh, kitchen and fire up some things. Um, and so, yeah. So ultimately, you know, months of going back and forth.
[00:03:34]
Dave Maloney
Trials and tribulations on a bomb. Uh, brought something to her, I think it was August of 2023. Again, didn't think much of it. Uh, just brought it, brought it up to her. Um, and then, you know, a month goes by and she goes, that really, really. Helped my skin. Um, and so that's sort of, you know, again, it wasn't even a business idea then.
[00:03:54]
Dave Maloney
Uh, but it was, it was sort of when, you know, that's when I realized I might have something here. And then I think we of officially launched the Shopify store, which again, it was just a wife and I had no idea what to do with e-commerce because I have a biotech background. Um, so we launched a Shopify store and then, you know, ultimately Amazon, uh, towards the end of.
[00:04:16]
Dave Maloney
2023.
[00:04:17]
Jon LaClare
And your background, and if I remember it, is you have a PhD in organic chemistry, which I, I, I, I took chemistry in high school and, and vowed never to take it again 'cause it was pretty hard. But I remember all my buddies in college. Right, right. When I remember my buddies that. Were pre-med majors in college.
[00:04:35]
Jon LaClare
That organic chemistry, chemistry specifically was the one class. It was like the weeder, right? So it was so hard that even these smart science guys, if they couldn't make it past that, you know, they probably didn't make it into med school and you decided like, Hey, what the heck? I'll just get my PhD in, in like the hardest possible chemistry imaginable.
[00:04:50]
Jon LaClare
Um, and I wanna bring that up 'cause it's you, you know, I think it's. One of the reasons you're so successful in this is because, unlike some other products where, and there's nothing wrong with this, but some people just find a manufacturer for, you know, a me too product. If it's tallow or anything else, bring it in and, and launch it, right?
[00:05:08]
Jon LaClare
And put, put a, a smack a label on it. But what you've done is because of your chemistry background, is really making sure that it works as well as possible. So there's a lot of tele products. The reason yours works so well is because you've paid so much attention to the science. You understand it. Not that everybody has to have a PhD to launch a product, of course, but making sure you've got quality and differentiation behind it.
[00:05:30]
Jon LaClare
So I, I'd love to talk about, you know, beyond the tallow, what makes it different. But first of all. While I've got, you know, a PhD in organic chemistry on with us today. Can you explain, 'cause I think I don't fully understand why Tallow is so good. I know that it is, right? I've used your products, it's fantastic and I've used some others over the years as well.
[00:05:48]
Jon LaClare
It works great and we, it's been in the news like crazy for the last year or so. But what makes it so good? Why is it better than other ingredients that might be sort of similar?
[00:05:59]
Dave Maloney
Well, I, I think you, so you, you look at what your skin actually. Recognizes and needs. Right? And, and Talo has a lot of the same fatty acid profiles.
[00:06:12]
Dave Maloney
I'm not gonna go through the name of all of them as our skin. So it's recognized. So I think one of the problems with kind of store-bought standard moisturizers is the, the main ingredient is often water. If you look at the label. So if the, the. First thing on the list is always the, is the main, is the main ingredient.
[00:06:36]
Dave Maloney
And so you're paying for water, which, you know, again, feels probably good when you first apply it, but then it's just gone. Right. And one thing with tallow, and I, I think the mistake that people make when they, when they use tallow for the first time, is applying the same amount that, that you need for a standard moisturizer.
[00:06:56]
Dave Maloney
And you tend to overly, and they say, oh, it's so greasy, you know, but. You don't need much. You know, I, I applied some like 10 minutes be, be before being on this call. Um, and so I, I think that's, so, I, I think there's that and it, it just lasts longer and it, it actually provides your skin what, what it needs.
[00:07:19]
Dave Maloney
And that's like leaving out the phthalates and the parabens that you hear about and, and things like that. But just talking about at a basic. Chemistry level since it's natural, it's, you know, again, very comparable to what our skin produces to moisturize itself.
[00:07:41]
Jon LaClare
Uh, that's a great explanation. I, it's funny with moisturizers, you know, you, the layman looks at it and like water's in there.
[00:07:46]
Jon LaClare
Well, of course it has water 'cause it's got a moisturize my skin, I want water. But I mean, a shower doesn't do it. Right. Like, if the water on the surface isn't gonna do anything, it really just literally waters down the ocean. Right. Exactly. It doesn't, doesn't really help much. So what else? You know, without getting into maybe too confidential stuff, but you talked about how you refined these formulations over time.
[00:08:05]
Jon LaClare
So there's the talo element, which is so beneficial and getting the right type of talo, right amount, et cetera. But what else? Like, so what else do you mix in that, you know, generally works and mix the product work better?
[00:08:16]
Dave Maloney
Yeah, and so I think each product like has its own mix, right? And so one of the things I learned in, you know, in the biotech field is nature.
[00:08:25]
Dave Maloney
Provides. So, you know, as a, as a, as a chemist, like my job often was to make in the lab what nature made, and we might do like tweaks to improve upon it. So, you know, for a, for a long, I mean you, you know, you might hear about like. Natural products and drug discovery. For example, Taxol, which was a big cancer drug, I believe is from the bark of a tree.
[00:08:52]
Dave Maloney
And you know, it's been optimized. And so for a long time I've, I've sort of known that nature provides. And then, you know, and thinking about it, you have to think that Tao isn't the one thing out there like. That can be good. But then you gotta start to think about what's it being used for, right? And so you know some things for your lips, coconut oil, even though I think a lot of people use it on their skin and have a positive effect with it, I felt that was more better for lips versus skin.
[00:09:25]
Dave Maloney
Right? And then, and you look at, so I have coconut oil in my lip balm, beeswax. Provides a barrier, right? Because you wanna, you wanna like lock in the moisture ho haba oil. It's always tough to say that one. Um, it has, has very na very comparable properties to your skins oils. And so that was a, a big one. So that's my number two ingredient in the Tali bomb.
[00:09:55]
Dave Maloney
But then it's about finding that right mixture that's not too thick. Too thin, you know? And again, so you just sort of go like, product by product and, and that's where my background, I think of and I, the, the background I have and also not being in a rush to market against, there was no like VC backed, have to get this thing launched.
[00:10:18]
Dave Maloney
You know? It was just me trying to make something for my mom, which then. Turned out to be popular and just like fin over time. So I, I think that's an important piece though. You know, it's not just tallow, there's a lot of other shea butters in there, right? 'cause there's a lot of properties and shea butter that are positive for the skin.
[00:10:42]
Dave Maloney
And so that's really, I think my, my background came in, in finding that right mixtures, you know, it's like 70% this, 30% that, 20% that, um, and just. You know, doing batch after batch. Um. So I hope that helps, but
[00:10:56]
Jon LaClare
yeah. Yeah. No, absolutely. Uh, and you mentioned, you know, the balm I know is one of your, I think your initial product that you launched that helped your mom, and then the lip balm is what came later, but is really overtaken to be the number one seller.
[00:11:09]
Jon LaClare
And I, I love the product. It's, uh, it's different than other lip balms. It's, it's sticks around, right? Where others, you put it on, it feels, it's almost like, it's probably the water, right? It, it's the, oh, it feels great for 20 minutes and it's gone. Um, but it's something with yours. You can put it on in the morning.
[00:11:23]
Jon LaClare
It's, it really. For me, it keeps my lips moist throughout the day. I always, especially before a podcast interview like this, you know, I always put, I always put lip balm on in it when I'm just talking so much, you know, my, my mouth dries out, et cetera, and it's been better than anything else I've tried, so it's phenomenal.
[00:11:36]
Jon LaClare
Um, yeah. You know, absolutely. Why do you think it took off? So it works well, but so does the, you know, the facial balm, right? Why do you think the lip balm took off so well and has been so successful for you compared to some of the other products, which are great and working well, but this is even better.
[00:11:50]
Dave Maloney
Yeah, I, I think it's a couple factors. The, the first, I would say people are very passionate about their lip balm. And so when they find something that works, you know, a lot of people have a lip balm addiction, if you will. Um, and partially that's because like what's out there, you know, my opinion doesn't work that well.
[00:12:10]
Dave Maloney
Um, so yeah, so one, I, I think people are passionate and so want to share and, and buy two, which was, which was. My problem, I lose them all the time. And so people are buying them again. Um, but, but two, like I said, I, I don't think most of the big brands out there work all that well. It's, it's temporarily.
[00:12:35]
Dave Maloney
Temporarily helps, but that's why people are constantly going to their lips, right? And so I, I think those two are the, the big players. And then, and then three, you know, at least as it, as it speaks to Amazon, it's just a, it's a, it's a great. Holiday gift stocking stuffer. And so you, you really have a massive uplift during that time of year, and that just kind of feeds itself.
[00:13:01]
Dave Maloney
More people buy more reviews that sort of feeds the algorithm. Um, so I, I think that, and I would say slightly less competition. You know, I think, you know, I wasn't, I wasn't, uh. First in the tall talo business. Um, but a lot of people have come on after that, a lot more kind of bombs. I think putting bomb in a, in a two ounce jar isn't that tough to do ultimately.
[00:13:28]
Dave Maloney
And so a lot of people can do it out of their basement. Um, lip balm becomes a much tougher thing to do on scale and, and you. Typically need to need to like bring in a manufacturer at some point. So I think that, you know, there's a little bit more of a moat there, I would say. Um, but yeah, just product works.
[00:13:48]
Dave Maloney
Product is popular and. People love, people love their lip balm.
[00:13:52]
Jon LaClare
Yeah. No. Yeah. It come, it comes back to it working. Right? The, the hurdle, obviously is getting people to try it the first time. Once they do, they come back and it, it is something you use over and over again and, and, uh, so yeah, you come back and either on subscription or, or continue to buy.
[00:14:05]
Jon LaClare
So you've grown this business fast and, and. You know, almost astronomically, let's say, but you kept your team pretty lean. So you know, you, you and your wife, I think are primarily the ones doing everything with some agencies on the side and people helping. So how is, how have you been able to keep your business, the structure or organization lean and still manage the momentum, you know, keeping the business growing so fast?
[00:14:28]
Dave Maloney
Yeah, it's been tough, but, you know, I, I think I, I. I learned a lot in the biotech world where we were virtual biotech and, and brought in help, like as we needed it. Um, I think the mistake some people make, and again, every business is different. If you're, if you're like venture capital backed and you have expectations, you need to grow your top line in six months, like that's a different, and you have a lot of capital at the table and there's an expectation to not be profitable at the outset.
[00:14:56]
Dave Maloney
I think you have a different model. For me, I was com. Completely bootstrapped. Um, and so for me it was kind of twofold. One, I, I, I feel like when you don't have a large overhead, and, you know, again, everything's expensive, but when you don't have a large overhead, you can sort of direct the business as you want to direct it.
[00:15:17]
Dave Maloney
When you start to bring in, bring in the, you know, hires, full-time hires, I, I think people love the feeling of. Hiring people, which, you know, again is, you know, is a, is a really laudable goal, right? You're pro providing employment for, for people. But I think it puts a lot of. Pressure in the business in the early days.
[00:15:43]
Dave Maloney
Um, and so that's where I, I sort of felt from a contractor basis, if you will, trying to find people who truly value your team, your product. You don't want them to feel like they're not part of the business. So I've built a team that I tell them every day, like how much I appreciate them and they are part of the team, but it's not a full-time, you know.
[00:16:09]
Dave Maloney
Drag on the p and l. Um, so if, if things change, if, if needs change and all of a sudden I gotta double my meta, I can put it there. And so I think that model has worked well for me. It worked, it worked really well on the biotech. Um, and I've talked to a couple other founders who have some pretty big.
[00:16:28]
Dave Maloney
Brands who have done round two, you know, sort of, they did one, one business that was a success, but they had had challenges and most of them, like the second time around, found the more, you know, tempered growth was a better one. Now that being said, you know, as your business gets bigger and you have like growth expectations, it does get more challenging.
[00:16:58]
Dave Maloney
Doing it on your own. Um, but I don't feel like I'm on my own. Right, right, right now, I mean, there's a lot on my plate. You know, I'm managing a lot of different teams and I, I. When you have that hub and spoke type type model, I don't even know if that's what it's called, but you want everyone to feel like they're, they're part of the team.
[00:17:19]
Dave Maloney
Otherwise you have silo here, silo there. And I think that's not a good model either. And so it's just the, I think the biggest challenge I, I face with my. Current model and, and teams is just making sure everyone's on the same page. Everyone knows what everyone's doing. Um, so even there's, even though they're sort of contract hires on, on a month to month basis, it's really like a, a.
[00:17:46]
Dave Maloney
Fully integrated team.
[00:17:48]
Jon LaClare
Yeah. And I think it comes down to the way you treat them and you know, you've explained, you know, when, when you talk about them as being part of the team as opposed to just a, a number of vendor that's in and out, you know, if you're using different vendors. Exactly. And if you're using different people or different agencies every month for different tasks, you, it's gonna.
[00:18:05]
Jon LaClare
Be difficult to have that cohesiveness. So if you treat 'em almost like having a full-time employee, much less expensive and use, use 'em when you need 'em. But you have a relationship over time that you're built. And we've, we've done our, built our business in a similar fashion. We've got a few full-time employees that are absolutely integral to our team, but we have some other contractors beyond that.
[00:18:22]
Jon LaClare
So. As you know, we have periods of, you know, big projects that come in that we don't always need that number of people, et cetera. So we've got our team that comes and, and help helps with that. But it's really helped us to temper our, our costs to match our growth when business, you know, there's ups and downs of businesses, so it's.
[00:18:39]
Jon LaClare
Yeah. Is there, is there anything you did with the foundation? So if you think back to the early days of your business, what was integral important in building the foundation that's helped you to be able to stay, you know, growing, successful, profitable, and with a, a lean team? So think back to like the foundation side of it.
[00:18:57]
Jon LaClare
What, what was helpful then?
[00:18:59]
Dave Maloney
Yeah, I mean, I think, I think not having, not having any expectations of it being a business frankly. And having, having. Having like revenue targets at the outset, you know, allowed, I think, I think the mistake some people make, and I hate to say a mistake 'cause everyone has different pressures, you know, depending on how, again, if it's a VC-backed or whatever, but for, for me, it was about starting small.
[00:19:28]
Dave Maloney
So like, I mean, just. Just to put in perspective, I think my first FBA, like when I shipped stuff into Amazon, was five, five of each product. You know, you imagine five products spread apart, spread apart the us right? Because you, because I didn't know if it was gonna work and so I, I didn't wanna like load up FBA and then no one's buying it, and then I'm paying, you know, aged inventory fees.
[00:19:53]
Dave Maloney
And so I, I think some of the mistake people make. Is, you know, going, going all in on marketing, build it like building a demand, but then the product isn't quite like. Ready? I think, you know, one of the things that I, I think works well is get the product market fit. Get, get feedback. Is it exactly how you, like, you know, you know, in my case, is the texture right?
[00:20:21]
Dave Maloney
Is the scent right? Is it, you know, is it the size, right? Is it the, is it the type of container that it's ins? Right? And if it's not, it's much easier. If you're selling to a hundred people as opposed to going on a massive, massive TikTok viral where you have a warehouse of. Warehouse of inventory, finding out there's a flaw in your product.
[00:20:48]
Dave Maloney
So, so for me, and again, I don't know if it was in intentional, um, it was just building that base. And again, for me as a bootstrap business, it allows me to keep, you know, going with a steady organic type growth helps me keep up with inventory. Right? 'cause you don't wanna stock out on Amazon. That's like a.
[00:21:11]
Dave Maloney
You know, cardinal rule. And so, so I think everyone wants to go viral. Everyone wants to, you know, rocket ship their business. Um, but for me it's that slow, steady growth. And I, I think Mark, you know, a heavy marketing campaign, if you're very good at what you do, can, can certainly get you the first buyer.
[00:21:38]
Dave Maloney
But it might, it, they might not buy again. Right. And so like my goal was to build a business that people love the product, come back, buy again and again, and not be a. Flash in the pan business that was superior marketing, but had no product.
[00:22:00]
Jon LaClare
Yeah, well put. And I think there's a couple things I wanna pull out from what you said.
[00:22:05]
Jon LaClare
One is, you know, having the, a good product, right? Spending the time to get it right in the very beginning, not perfect, not finally even, right? Because, because you can be flexible. And that's the other side I wanna pull out. It's interesting. It's kind of counterintuitive when you think of a foundation, right?
[00:22:18]
Jon LaClare
I always want it to be firm, right? Steadfast. But in reality, in in building a business, you also have to have some flexibility in the foundation, right? And you talked about how, you know, sending small quantities to Amazon in the beginning because it gives you the chance. There could be things that go wrong.
[00:22:32]
Jon LaClare
It doesn't have to be five units, it might be 500 or whatever. But having that ability to make changes early on to get it as good as you can in the beginning, but. 80 per 80% of the way. It doesn't have to be perfect. Right. So a lot of businesses are killed off because they spend too much time perfecting and never get it to launch.
[00:22:50]
Jon LaClare
Right. We don't wanna get that far because Exactly. And really you can't, in my experience, you can't. Perfect the last 20% without consumer involvement. Right? So you take it far enough and get it working and, and Right. And then you're gonna learn from your customers. I'm sure you've had some experience along the way of making changes.
[00:23:09]
Jon LaClare
'cause what works on your lips and skin is gonna be different when you sell it to 10,000 people. Right. I.
[00:23:14]
Dave Maloney
Exactly. Yep. No, a thousand percent.
[00:23:17]
Jon LaClare
So I, I wanna talk about Amazon a little bit. 'cause if I remember right, most of your business is still on Amazon. Majority of the sales still come from there. And, and that's, it has worked very well.
[00:23:27]
Jon LaClare
And I wanna talk about why and. Kinda get your thoughts as you talk to other founders and product marketers that are out there. 'cause I just had a conversation yesterday with a, a client of ours that is the opposite. They do not wanna touch Amazon. And I, I don't agree with that necessarily. I, I, Amazon can be a great vehicle and depending on what you're launching, it may not be the primary, may not be the majority, but it is absolutely important.
[00:23:48]
Jon LaClare
Um, and I, I think it's important to hear there are downsides to Amazon. There's downsides to everything of course. But talk to me, talk to us about why Amazon has worked well for you and how it's been a good marketing channel for your business.
[00:24:01]
Dave Maloney
Yeah, I mean, I, so I, I think f for me, who, who had not built up a personal brand, you know, I think my personal Instagram has 295 followers or something.
[00:24:13]
Dave Maloney
You, I, I don't post all that much. Um, you know, so I don't have that. I, I, I think, I think people that are coming to the table with a product, right, with three. 150,000 followers. It's sort of a different calculus. Um, but we sort of thought of it as well. There was a couple things like you need to be where the shoppers are and you know, we thought about how we shop for.
[00:24:41]
Dave Maloney
The type of products that we buy now, you might buy 'em in the store. Um, but that's where people are. And I, I, I think, and you know, I think frankly it's, it's people like, you know, so to go back to Amazon, I people, when, when, when, when people open that app, they're generally there to buy. And so if they find your product frictionless, right?
[00:25:07]
Dave Maloney
It's, it's one. Buy now, and then it's on their door in a, in a day, right? So that, that's sort of hard to replicate. Where a website, you gotta do meta ads, Google ads, they might just be looking to see what's out there. They might be looking at my blog, which is. Which is cool, you know, but I just like paid for them to come to look at the blog and they might not ever buy.
[00:25:29]
Dave Maloney
Um, and then you gotta enter your credit card information, right? So there's just, I think we've moved into a, like the TikTok Shops of the world where people like fast. And so like, you know, I, I think I, you know, I've talked to a lot of brand owners, some people who do have a big following and, and, and certainly do a lot on.
[00:25:49]
Dave Maloney
D to C to their website, but almost all of them end up wanting to, wanting to be on Amazon too. But, you know, a, a Amazon is a daunting experience, right? 'cause you don't control the narrative. You know, like you better have a good product because you know, like people. Review and you have no control over that.
[00:26:13]
Dave Maloney
You can't even contact them if there was something that they've like misunderstood. A lot of that's changed on Amazon now, right? So, so I think people are nervous because, you know, you have to have a good product. But I mean, I think it's been absolutely big for us, and I think, I think brand, pe uh, new entrepreneurs really need to think hard about it.
[00:26:37]
Dave Maloney
But as you said, you know, it depends on what the product is, right? If it's a, if it's a large, bulky product, maybe that's not the place, you know, again, I don't have much experience with that. Um, but I just view it as, again, not from an e-comm expert, but just someone who's done it, you. You need to be where the shoppers are.
[00:26:54]
Jon LaClare
Yeah, you're exactly right. And, and you know, one of the downsides you kind of alluded to is you don't own the customer, right? So you don't know their names, you can't reach out to 'em, you can't email 'em, et cetera. So it's important to also have a website and you know, you can, especially with a business where you're getting subscriptions, getting them eventually to a website, it's more profitable.
[00:27:09]
Jon LaClare
Great. But being where the customer is to get that initial purchase, they're often, depending on the category is, is no better place. One of the important things you mentioned too is reviews. So you have a lot of reviews, you know, in a relatively short amount of time that you've built up. Any advice on how to do that?
[00:27:25]
Jon LaClare
Um, you know, how, what's the process on, on getting reviews? It it, you know, 10 years ago you could kind of buy reviews. That world has gone away. Not, not anymore at all. So what's, what's the right approach now?
[00:27:35]
Dave Maloney
Well, I'm, frankly, I, I feel like. People still do, but that wasn't, that wasn't an area that I wanted to dabble in because Right, because.
[00:27:46]
Dave Maloney
You get caught. I mean that, but Yeah. But I think you're right. Like they were more lenient. You could put package inserts saying, Hey, get 10% sent off if you leave a re. They've, they've stopped all that. It's tough. I mean, I, I think that's one of the, one of the things people have to recognize, um, when they launch on Amazon.
[00:28:04]
Dave Maloney
I mean, I don't, I don't have the exact numbers, but I, I think I read at some point, it's like a 1%, uh, review rate. And you have to assume, you know, people that are sometimes more apt to review are the ones that had a, had a bad experience. And so it's sort of leveraged. So when you see a 4.8 star, seven star product, I mean, there's a lot of people who love that product.
[00:28:30]
Dave Maloney
Um, so it, it is really a numbers game Now. There's apps you can, you can do that, that will send a, a, you know, I think Amazon may even do it automatically now. We'll send s. Send a review request. Um, I sort of, you know, we've done that in the past and I, I still do it a little bit, but I, I sort of had focused on people that had bought for not just spamming everybody.
[00:28:57]
Dave Maloney
Now, I think that slows down how many reviews you get, I think in the lip balm. I, I, I've, I've managed to get a lot of reviews there, partially like I, I talked about before. I mean. One, it's a numbers game. You know, I've, I've sold more lip balm, but two people are just passionate about it. So people want, like, when they find something, when they like, love their lip balm and it's something that, you know, is far better, far better than anything they've, you know.
[00:29:31]
Dave Maloney
Used in the past. Um, they tend to talk about it, but, but it's tough. I, I think that is something, you know, people need to think about. You don't expect, like you launch on Amazon and all of a sudden you're gonna have a. 400 reviews, so
[00:29:50]
Jon LaClare
it does take time. Yeah, and I think, you know, as you said, it's a, a lot of it comes down to the product, so being different, you know, if it's just a commodity you're shipping out, it's a little bit harder.
[00:30:00]
Jon LaClare
Even if it is good, you know, but no better than the others. When you've got a product that really is good and it's delivering on the promises, that, that certainly helps. You know, one additional thing you kinda mentioned, there's programs within Amazon, the Amazon Vine program. For those that might not be aware of it, it's a great way to get the first handful of reviews, five, 10 plus reviews.
[00:30:18]
Jon LaClare
Exactly. It gets momentum going 'cause it's hard to sell with zero reviews. Right. To get those first few sales.
[00:30:24]
Dave Maloney
Or if you get a one bad, you just happen to happen to get a bad luck and you get that one bad one. It's, it, it, it's tough.
[00:30:31]
Jon LaClare
So Amazon Vine can be very inexpensive, relatively speaking. You basically give, it's the cost of the product you give away and get a handful of those and can be great to get reviews as well.
[00:30:39]
Jon LaClare
Well, last question I have is if you think back to 2023, so what advice would you give to yourself? Done. It's, I can't believe it's only been three years, but it, and all that you've been able to accomplish. If you look back though, and like all that you've learned right now, what advice would you give to maybe do something different or additional in those very, very early days of the business?
[00:30:57]
Dave Maloney
Yeah, there's a couple things and some, I, I, I don't think there's any way to change, but you know, I, I think if you, you know, if I knew, if I knew it was gonna be a business, there was some kind of choices I made early on. Brand name and whatnot, like finding that perfect name that I, I felt was a, a brandable name that I liked would've been better.
[00:31:22]
Dave Maloney
Just having that at the outset. Um, I think finding, finding an A network. Um, so I'm part of Founders Only group. It's just like a group of entrepreneurs, content creators. Brand builders just to bounce ideas off of, you know, I mean, I, I have very, very good friends here at home. Uh, but very few are, you know, in, in this type of business.
[00:31:49]
Dave Maloney
And so it can be lonely as an entrepreneur. Uh, so I think finding that's the group I found June last year. Uh, so I think it would've been helpful if I had kind of found, found something. Early on. Um, and then lastly from the business side, you know, potentially leaning in more to, to your hero product. You know, I think, you know, again, it's, it's different for me on my website.
[00:32:20]
Dave Maloney
It's really my Taliban and. Deodorant are bigger, you know, but I think leaning into the lip balm on a Amazon and not trying to like, bring all products up at the same thing. Just sort of say, this is what's, this is what's taken off. Let's just, you know, ride this wave. Um, but community is key. How, you know?
[00:32:47]
Jon LaClare
Agreed. Yeah, absolutely. It is. It is a lonely world as an entrepreneur sometimes, but there's plenty of 'em out there. We just need to reach out to the community and, and, and man, I, I will tell you, it's of all the communities I'm part of, just in life in general, there's no better community that wants to help each other.
[00:33:03]
Jon LaClare
You know, you could talk to founders and completely different businesses that will, they want to help you avoid the same pitfalls they've seen and, and vice versa, right? They wanna learn from you as well. It's one of the reasons I love doing this show is a, I get to spend time with founders like you, but our audience is like you as well, right?
[00:33:18]
Jon LaClare
We're a bunch of people running businesses and trying to learn from each other, both, uh, from successes, from failures, sometimes along the way as well. So no, ab absolutely helps. Um, thank you. This has been an absolutely fun interview and you shared a lot of information. I think it's super helpful too. How, if someone wants to find your product, what's the best way to, to get ahold of, of you.
[00:33:38]
Dave Maloney
Tallowbourn.com. T-A-L-L-O-W-B-O-U-R-N, and at Tallowbourn on Instagram. At Tallowbourn on TikTok, and, and you can find us on Amazon.
[00:33:48]
Jon LaClare
For our audience, if you wanna take the next step in growing your own business, please visit harvestgrowth.com to connect with our team. You can book a one-on-one conversation focused on your business.
[00:34:01]
Jon LaClare
Well, thanks for listening. We'll see you in the next episode